Excellent Idea so long as many are willing to participate and have a willingness to have their core beliefs changed/altered...;<)

Let's start with the most obvious...

What "Must" be "false"....IFFFFFFFFF

The Big Bang NEVER happened!!!

I'll start...

The Universe was NEVER "Shrunk down to a Point" Singularity

IE: without that start,at T=0, we cannot tell how far the universe extends and therefore, there should be just as much "Matter"/Galaxies past any given radius holding the Universe back from contracting as there is inside that radius to cause a contraction...

Which makes the "First 3 Minutes" total Myth!!!

just for the sake of argument, the universe could be finite but kept from collapsing by the individual motion of its components.
For instance the solar system would collapse if it were not for the motion of the planets. ie the planets can keep 'falling' under gravity as long as you like but their speed keeps them from falling into the Sun.
Why not?

IFFFFFFFF there is just as much "Matter/Galaxies" outside of any particular radius holding the universe back from contraction....why would you think that there should be any contraction at all???

As soon as you make the 'assumption' that there could be a collapse, you automatically add another 'assumption' of a "Mysterious Force"....Anti-Gravity (Pushing Gravity) holding the Universe back from contraction!!!

IFF the Big Bang Never happened then there was NEVER any danger of the Universe collapsing at all in the first place!!! There is just as much if not MORE matter/galaxies on the 'other side' of any "Imagined Horizon"

There was NO 'smaller expanding' universe that became full of HI/He/Li/Deut and then collapsed Via the "Unreal" Virial Theorum into Non existent "Dark Matter Haloes" that 'somehow' wind up producing a SMBH "After the Fact"...(Mini-Bangs of "New SMBH's" Cause each galaxy to produce those 'initial elements' for their own galaxies one at a time!!!)

IF there was NO Universe full of expanding HI, then there CANNOT have been a "Surface Of Last Scattering" Horizon and therefore the CMBR CANNOT be 'stretched photons' that started out as ~3000k photons and are now 2.73K photons...SO, instead there MUST be exactly what we are 'Observing" they are...2.73K photons and NOT stretched and therefore they are ALL traveling at Constant Light Speed of 186,282.397 mps. in ALL/Every direction Non-collisionally ;>))

Those CMBR Photons are NOT produced by "Star Light" and they are definitely Cosmological in distance and NOT Local! Mainstream is correct on those two issues.

As to all the galaxies in the universe revolving around a central mass...there is NO evidence of that that I know of ;>))

hi Russ,
I thought this thread was to be about evidence.
About bars on galaxies and so on.
No IFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFs
Can we keep to the evidence behind your thoughts?

Cheers
lyndon

The Evidence behind my thoughts has been a great deal of considerable analysis of what is "Not Real"...

IFFFFFFF the Big Bang NEVER happened.

Since you guys also believe that the Big Bang Never happened, I was expecting others to participate with what cannot be true/real if there was NO Big Bang!!!

Here are two more...

There can be NO 'early and late' galaxies as there was NO T=0 :IE No 'start' to the Universe

Since New Galaxies are being created, then at say 10 billion light years distance, you can have a brand new galaxy and one that was 10 billion years old when its light left it traveling for 10 billion years to get to us, making that galaxy at least 20 Billion years old.

And secondly...since the universe was never shrunk down to anything smaller than it is now, any galaxies that are at say 10 or 12 billion light years distance, CANNOT have been closer to us in the past!!!

The Universe is just simply not expanding or contracting or "Static" with some mysterious force holding it up from collapse...

It is just Galaxy Clusters with the Voids in between, out to a Scientifically Unknowable Distance.

Do you and any others agree with this???

This might actually fit more into the "What I Believe" thread.

What I Believe

- Mike Petersen

Mike...Kind of but not really...here is why

all we are dealing with in this thread is...

What "Must" be "false"....IFFFFFFFFF

The Big Bang NEVER happened!!!

So, all were are dealing with here is the "Schwarzschild" EFE FLRW "inside solution" to the expanding "Naked Singularity"...

Now, you guys and mainstream seem to think that only applies to the "Point", BUT that is NOT true and I have been very patiently (IMHO) trying to get everyone to understand that the "Singularity" also includes the "Horizons".

IFFFFFF the Big Bang Never happened...

,,,was the Universe ever shrunk down to a Point/Atom? was there a T=0 for the Universe?
Did it expand to the size of a "Grapefruit" from T=10^-43 to -35...Inflation
Was the Universe ever wayyyyyyyyyyyyy smaller than it is now?

I think you guys would all agree that the answer to all of these is a definite NO.

Now...we have evidence that there is NO doppler time dilation of QSO's or GRB's and...since you guys also agree that there was NO Big Bang....NO expanding Universe full of HI, then the Horizon "Surface of Last Scattering" never existed either....that is three lines of evidence against "Stretched Photons" and shows that the concept of "Doppler Redshift" denoting the "Velocity of retreating Galaxies/Clusters" was a total sham/forced constraint that was never true/real to begin with.

Agree/Disagree???

RussT said:


And secondly...since the universe was never shrunk down to anything smaller than it is now, any galaxies that are at say 10 or 12 billion light years distance, CANNOT have been closer to us in the past!!!

Okay.,.let me be a little more specific here...

By this I mean that any "Cluster" of galaxies, say 12 billion LY's away (When their light left them traveling at the Finite speed "c" of 186,282.397 mps) was never closer to us than any Clusters at 10 billion LY's (When their light left them traveling at the Finite speed "c" of 186,282.397 mps), 8 Billion LY's (When their light left them traveling at the Finite speed "c" of 186,282.397 mps), 6 Billion LY's (When their light left them traveling at the Finite speed "c" of 186,282.397 mps) etc

There simply is NO "younger universe" the farther away you go!!!

The Universe is "Ageless" with NO expanding Horizons and is Clusters of Galaxies with Voids in between out to a Scientifically Unknowable Distance ;<)) 

Agree/Disagree???

When I suggested opening this thread you were talking about galaxy types , galaxies with bars, age of galaxies related to their physical properties.
I know nothing about this so I was hoping  to learn something.
Could we return to this?

All you need to do is understand everything I have shown here is correct...

And here is another perfect example of how they are totally confused about "Old and Dead" galaxies in the far "Supposedly" early Universe!!!

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7132-red-and-dead-galaxies-surprise-astronomers.html

LOL...Massive Black Holes are NOT curtailing star formation...The "Jets" don't come on in any galaxy until the SMBH reaches 100's of millions to Billions of sol masses~~~

All you need to do is understand everything I have shown here is correct...

RussT, this kind of arrogance will get you nowhere.

LOL........Mike it is not arrogance...it is Understanding ALL the ramifications of....

IFFFFFFF the Big Bang did NOT happen....then what,...

No, Russ.  It's arrogance, as evidenced by your excessive hyperbole and unnecessary overuse of bold fonts, too much capitalization, and long, drawn out words like "ifffff".  You write your posts as if you're lecturing children.

Just stick to the subject material addressed please. I do not want to waste time defending any of your accusations.

I am just trying to show (Get everyone to understand) that the Big Bang "Singularity" includes the "Horizons" whereby IF the Big Bang never happened then there are no expanding or contracting horizons and no way scientifically to determine an age for the Universe!